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[Music]

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hello and welcome to episode number 55

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of the point of convergence podcast

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as always i am your host exo academian

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in last week's episode we kicked off a

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discussion of a certain kind of alien

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interaction

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the kind well attested to in the ufo

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phenomenon literature

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where human beings are repeatedly

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interacted with by non-human

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intelligences and often from a very

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young age

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as time goes on that interaction often

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includes abduction that is

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the taking of these people from their

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homes up onto what appeared to be

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spacecraft either orbiting the earth in

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cloaked fashion

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or existing in some kind of hyperspace

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or alternate realm of reality

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where time and space seem to function

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differently

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that level of ontological shock that

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arises for these abductees contactees as

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we've said numerous times over the

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course of this podcast

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cannot be overstated

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these encounters shake these people to

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the core

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and that's true whether they ultimately

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come to see the experiences as positive

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negative or neutral

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these meetings whether you see them as

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intergalactic or interdimensional in

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nature or some combination of the two

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seem to very often include a biological

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element

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that is to say the people who are taken

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on board these craft remember having had

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various medical experiments and

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procedures done to them

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including the collecting of reproductive

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material that seems to be part of a vast

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hybridization program of some kind

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furthering this narrative all the more

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many of these experiences also report

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having had contact with some of these

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very hybrid beings including ones they

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are told and believed to be

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their very offspring

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the case of terry lovelace fits all the

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above criteria to a achieve

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this case is fascinating for several

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different reasons

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first because it is told by a person who

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has had a distinguished professional

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career and who seems to be credible in

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every measure one can reasonably apply

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secondly because terry lovelace's

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retelling of his experiences

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extending over an entire lifetime are so

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rich in vivid detail

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and thirdly because as i already

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mentioned this case is so typical of

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many such cases catalogued within the

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ufo phenomenon literature

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in last week's episode a point of

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convergence we discussed two key

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sequences of lovelace's lifelong

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encounters a window of time from his

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childhood when he encountered grey

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aliens he at the time

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called the monkey men

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and then a climactic event that occurred

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while he was a young man in the military

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where he and a close friend encountered

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a massive black triangle ufo craft while

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camping in a remote area

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this latter experience resulted in an

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abduction of both men and a subsequent

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interrogation by the air force upon

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their hasty return from that excursion

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this week we'll pick up right where we

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left off discussing the nature of that

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interrogation and what that suggested

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the military already knew about this

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phenomenon

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as well as details about lovelace's

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experience while on board the triangular

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craft

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and then moving forward to events from

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later in his life after his time in the

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military

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in this the 55th episode

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[Music]

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as we begin this week's episode just to

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note that this is part two of a two-part

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series we're doing on the experiences of

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terry lovelace

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so if you have not heard the first part

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of this series i would go back and

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listen to that first episode 54 and then

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come back and check out this episode 55.

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now terry lovelace's experiences are

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documented in his book incident at

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devil's den a true story by terry

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lovelace he's also written a second book

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titled devil's den the reckoning which

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covers additional experiences as well as

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additional recollections he had later on

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as well as a section that includes

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letters he received from other people

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who've had similarly bizarre incidents

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in their life

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now last week we left off after terry

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and his friend toby had returned from

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this camping trip that turned into an

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abduction experience

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chance

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rather both of these men had concluded

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that this seems to have been a setup

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that their entire decision to go to a

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remote location like devil's den and

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even from within that a very remote

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location from within that camping ground

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was actually a suggestion implanted by

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these others by these alien beings and

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just to be even more clear about that

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they were directed to go to a specific

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meadow which is cleared and in some ways

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you could argue it's the perfect size

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for a landing spot for that massive

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triangular ufo they later encounter

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in fact one of the people that

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interviewed terry levelace on a podcast

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was able to with google maps google

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earth was able to locate this particular

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meadow and even today it is cleared

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which is very interesting in fact terry

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lovelace wonders aloud if there's

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something to that

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perhaps there's some agreement going on

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and that this is a known location where

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this large triangular craft lands

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whatever the case that location is still

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there you can find it on google earth

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and it's still cleared and you can see

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the size of the craft because remember

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in his account he talks about the

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triangular craft pretty much taking up

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the entire meadow so by looking at that

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location at devil's den state park you

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get a sense of the size of the craft

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they encountered

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now once they left that area and went

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back home they left early if you

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remember because they were quite

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distraught

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and confused after their experience

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their abduction experience

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they went back home and then because

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they were in rough shape

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they were taken to the hospital the

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military hospital by both of their wives

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and then after an interview that was

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part of that examination at the hospital

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certain things must have been said by

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both men that even though they were

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trying to keep under wraps what actually

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happened they never mentioned abduction

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or ufo they said enough to trip certain

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flags

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that got the attention of the upper

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echelons of the military establishment

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which resulted in two agents showing up

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to interrogate both these men

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now as these things often work the two

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men were separated so they don't know

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what each of them said

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terry recounts his particular

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interrogation experience

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and then even more shockingly he's

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quickly given a bunch of papers that

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he's asked to sign again he's still in

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very rough shape he's still very

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confused

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and yet they basically under duress

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force him to sign these papers

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one of them is an nda saying he will

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never share these experiences so that's

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interesting in itself because by coming

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out by writing this book and sharing

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these experiences

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terry is actually breaking that nda and

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he admits that's what he's doing but at

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this point in his retirement age he

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doesn't care he feels like it's

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important that he comes forward for the

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sake of other experiencers and so that

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the general public will understand

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what's been going on and perhaps what

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the military already knows about it now

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in addition to signing an nda a

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non-disclosure agreement he also kind of

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unknowingly because these papers were

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just shuffled in front of him one after

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another and he signed away he also

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agreed to have a hypnosis session done

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and when he actually later questioned

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the agents and wondered why he was being

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hypnotized they said well you signed

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right here saying you were willing to do

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this in addition to us searching your

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house and your vehicle etc do you want

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to renege on those agreements that you

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signed and at that point terry isn't

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sure what to do

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but this agent says if you want to

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renege you can that's within your rights

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and then i'll see you at your

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court-martial so clearly he is bluffing

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there but a young terry again he was a

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young man in his early 20s at this point

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feels the pressure he doesn't want to be

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in trouble he certainly doesn't want to

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be court-martialed so he agrees to this

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hypnosis session

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now this is very interesting because

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everything that's happened up until now

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the response of the military suggests to

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terry in reflection and i have to agree

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with him that there seems to be some

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degree of knowledge by the military

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something about this experience tripped

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certain flags that they were looking out

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for that it seems like they were aware

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of these abduction experiences that they

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can happen that they do happen and that

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they interrogate military personnel when

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they do happen

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and speaking of that the knowledge of

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the military seems to go beyond that and

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some of that becomes clear in the midst

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of this interrogation which included

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this hypnotic regression session that

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terry was subjected to

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and i now want to jump to that part of

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the book where the interrogation is

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described

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so in this next section i quote from

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just remember that at this point terry

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has been put under hypnotic regression

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although he has resisted it and he

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believes that he is not fully under

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despite this agent thinking that he's

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under

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now this person conducting this

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interrogation this hypnotic regression

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was actually a major in the air force

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but he asks terry to call him brad again

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that's a method used to make terry relax

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and then this is what happened next

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during that hypnotic regression quote

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brad asked you and tobias saw the stars

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first then the triangle and what did you

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see next we watched the ship come in

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from just three little lights it climbed

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up and over us

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god it was so big but we weren't afraid

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toby wasn't scared either we just went

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to sleep

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we were so tired and we just weren't

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interested

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i was reliving the whole thing in my

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mind and it was terrifying i could hear

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the major addressing the two agents

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i've seen this dozens of times before he

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said there is alien apathy and alien

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amnesia there are two separate phenomena

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it's common

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unquote

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so i mentioned this in passing last week

284
00:10:46,470 --> 00:10:44,800
it's very interesting here while this

285
00:10:49,509 --> 00:10:46,480
hypnotic regression session is being

286
00:10:51,509 --> 00:10:49,519
conducted and all three men present

287
00:10:53,750 --> 00:10:51,519
believe that terry is actually under and

288
00:10:55,670 --> 00:10:53,760
won't remember any of this part the

289
00:10:57,509 --> 00:10:55,680
major is turning and addressing these

290
00:11:00,790 --> 00:10:57,519
two other agents the agents that were

291
00:11:03,269 --> 00:11:00,800
first on the scene to interrogate terry

292
00:11:05,350 --> 00:11:03,279
and he says that this alien apathy in

293
00:11:07,670 --> 00:11:05,360
alien amnesia these are the terms he

294
00:11:09,829 --> 00:11:07,680
used are common

295
00:11:12,069 --> 00:11:09,839
now let's jump back into the book

296
00:11:14,470 --> 00:11:12,079
quoting again from the book quote

297
00:11:16,630 --> 00:11:14,480
the major resumed the interrogation you

298
00:11:18,230 --> 00:11:16,640
weren't interested and you went to bed

299
00:11:19,190 --> 00:11:18,240
what time did you enter your tent that

300
00:11:21,509 --> 00:11:19,200
night

301
00:11:23,750 --> 00:11:21,519
right before their ship docked i said it

302
00:11:25,829 --> 00:11:23,760
landed in the field about midnight but

303
00:11:28,550 --> 00:11:25,839
it was never on the ground it stayed

304
00:11:30,790 --> 00:11:28,560
about 30 feet over the meadow floor

305
00:11:33,110 --> 00:11:30,800
brad it just hung there i said as i

306
00:11:35,269 --> 00:11:33,120
watched it all play out in my head i was

307
00:11:37,829 --> 00:11:35,279
amazed at the images i saw but they were

308
00:11:40,150 --> 00:11:37,839
familiar too it was like seeing an old

309
00:11:42,310 --> 00:11:40,160
friend you'd not seen in years

310
00:11:44,150 --> 00:11:42,320
brad said terry tell me about the

311
00:11:45,990 --> 00:11:44,160
spaceship in the meadow what did it look

312
00:11:48,870 --> 00:11:46,000
like what did you see

313
00:11:50,870 --> 00:11:48,880
i said a giant triangle of a spaceship

314
00:11:53,750 --> 00:11:50,880
it was hundreds of feet across it was

315
00:11:56,230 --> 00:11:53,760
huge it was so incredible i can see it

316
00:11:59,190 --> 00:11:56,240
now it was as fresh in my mind as what i

317
00:12:02,069 --> 00:11:59,200
had had for breakfast it was right there

318
00:12:04,870 --> 00:12:02,079
i paused i saw it all again and wanted

319
00:12:07,509 --> 00:12:04,880
to imprint it in my memory forever

320
00:12:09,190 --> 00:12:07,519
i said it was right there and it was so

321
00:12:11,350 --> 00:12:09,200
big it filled the meadow like a

322
00:12:13,509 --> 00:12:11,360
five-story building

323
00:12:15,750 --> 00:12:13,519
good terry that must have been exciting

324
00:12:17,269 --> 00:12:15,760
for you tell me about the ship

325
00:12:20,150 --> 00:12:17,279
when they took you and you were inside

326
00:12:22,629 --> 00:12:20,160
with toby what did you see inside

327
00:12:25,110 --> 00:12:22,639
incredible things i said this had to be

328
00:12:26,629 --> 00:12:25,120
one of their bigger ones i added almost

329
00:12:28,470 --> 00:12:26,639
as a matter of fact

330
00:12:31,829 --> 00:12:28,480
my conscious mind stopped playing the

331
00:12:34,150 --> 00:12:31,839
music it dawned on me he knows all about

332
00:12:37,190 --> 00:12:34,160
them already he is spot on with

333
00:12:39,350 --> 00:12:37,200
everything it was no star the son of a

334
00:12:41,190 --> 00:12:39,360
knew it was no star it was a

335
00:12:44,230 --> 00:12:41,200
goddamn spaceship

336
00:12:46,230 --> 00:12:44,240
how did he know how could he know he's

337
00:12:47,829 --> 00:12:46,240
leading me down a path to find out how

338
00:12:50,069 --> 00:12:47,839
much i know

339
00:12:51,269 --> 00:12:50,079
go on terry you're doing well now what

340
00:12:54,150 --> 00:12:51,279
did you see

341
00:12:55,910 --> 00:12:54,160
i said it was a big ship brad a large

342
00:12:58,550 --> 00:12:55,920
one it was different than the flying

343
00:13:00,949 --> 00:12:58,560
saucers and the giant ship i saw before

344
00:13:03,350 --> 00:13:00,959
it wasn't silver and it wasn't shiny it

345
00:13:05,430 --> 00:13:03,360
was a matte finish i'd call it very dark

346
00:13:08,069 --> 00:13:05,440
gray or black kind of like the black

347
00:13:09,750 --> 00:13:08,079
diamond we saw over kilo 5.

348
00:13:11,590 --> 00:13:09,760
by the way that's another sighting he'd

349
00:13:13,750 --> 00:13:11,600
had earlier on

350
00:13:15,509 --> 00:13:13,760
finishing off the quote quote it had

351
00:13:17,269 --> 00:13:15,519
lights on each corner that ran from the

352
00:13:18,470 --> 00:13:17,279
bottom to the top

353
00:13:20,069 --> 00:13:18,480
unquote

354
00:13:21,990 --> 00:13:20,079
now we're going to jump to the section

355
00:13:24,870 --> 00:13:22,000
of the hypnotic regression where terry

356
00:13:27,509 --> 00:13:24,880
describes the beings he saw inside this

357
00:13:29,430 --> 00:13:27,519
massive triangular craft and this part's

358
00:13:31,990 --> 00:13:29,440
very interesting because he encounters

359
00:13:34,470 --> 00:13:32,000
what looked to be not just humanoid but

360
00:13:37,350 --> 00:13:34,480
human beings that even seem to be in

361
00:13:39,670 --> 00:13:37,360
some kind of military regalia

362
00:13:42,230 --> 00:13:39,680
quoting from the book again quote

363
00:13:43,910 --> 00:13:42,240
brad's voice startled me go on terry and

364
00:13:45,990 --> 00:13:43,920
tell me what you see

365
00:13:47,269 --> 00:13:46,000
disturbed by the unaccountable period i

366
00:13:49,750 --> 00:13:47,279
began again

367
00:13:51,990 --> 00:13:49,760
it was black and five stories tall it

368
00:13:54,949 --> 00:13:52,000
was enormous there were three saucers

369
00:13:57,430 --> 00:13:54,959
situated inside like plains on a carrier

370
00:13:59,670 --> 00:13:57,440
parked below deck there was a crowd of

371
00:14:01,990 --> 00:13:59,680
people too we're all waiting for our

372
00:14:04,550 --> 00:14:02,000
turn on the table the space people

373
00:14:05,430 --> 00:14:04,560
control us the taller aliens are milling

374
00:14:07,750 --> 00:14:05,440
about

375
00:14:09,509 --> 00:14:07,760
they are the ones who control everything

376
00:14:11,750 --> 00:14:09,519
if one of them looks at you it's like

377
00:14:13,590 --> 00:14:11,760
being naked they can see and know

378
00:14:15,829 --> 00:14:13,600
everything in your mind that was the

379
00:14:18,310 --> 00:14:15,839
scariest thing so i avoided looking at

380
00:14:19,430 --> 00:14:18,320
them how many humans did you see brad

381
00:14:22,230 --> 00:14:19,440
asked

382
00:14:24,550 --> 00:14:22,240
50 or 60 a lot of people some of the

383
00:14:25,670 --> 00:14:24,560
human beings were crew members they

384
00:14:27,269 --> 00:14:25,680
ignored us

385
00:14:28,949 --> 00:14:27,279
tell me terry tell me what the human

386
00:14:31,350 --> 00:14:28,959
crew members wore

387
00:14:33,430 --> 00:14:31,360
i said tan colored flight suits with

388
00:14:35,189 --> 00:14:33,440
orange insignias of rank on their

389
00:14:38,150 --> 00:14:35,199
shoulders i said

390
00:14:40,790 --> 00:14:38,160
that created a stir i heard gregory say

391
00:14:42,470 --> 00:14:40,800
son of a and then he said quote

392
00:14:45,030 --> 00:14:42,480
terry you'll forget about the men in 10

393
00:14:46,150 --> 00:14:45,040
flight suits tell me where did they take

394
00:14:48,069 --> 00:14:46,160
you next

395
00:14:49,990 --> 00:14:48,079
gregory wanted to know

396
00:14:51,910 --> 00:14:50,000
in retrospect i think he wanted to shift

397
00:14:52,790 --> 00:14:51,920
my focus away from the men dressed in

398
00:14:54,949 --> 00:14:52,800
tan

399
00:14:58,310 --> 00:14:54,959
terry turn your head now and look terry

400
00:14:59,910 --> 00:14:58,320
tell me about the aquariums unquote now

401
00:15:01,829 --> 00:14:59,920
just jumping a little bit further

402
00:15:03,670 --> 00:15:01,839
forward terry comes across these

403
00:15:05,509 --> 00:15:03,680
aquariums when he's being led down this

404
00:15:07,030 --> 00:15:05,519
part of the ship towards some sort of

405
00:15:07,829 --> 00:15:07,040
medical procedure that's going to be

406
00:15:10,069 --> 00:15:07,839
done

407
00:15:11,670 --> 00:15:10,079
and he notices these aquariums off to

408
00:15:14,550 --> 00:15:11,680
his side

409
00:15:16,790 --> 00:15:14,560
and brad keys in on this he says quote

410
00:15:18,550 --> 00:15:16,800
terry turn your head now and look terry

411
00:15:19,430 --> 00:15:18,560
tell me about the aquariums what do you

412
00:15:22,230 --> 00:15:19,440
see

413
00:15:23,590 --> 00:15:22,240
terry responds they are big fish tanks

414
00:15:25,350 --> 00:15:23,600
inside them

415
00:15:27,590 --> 00:15:25,360
i thought they were puppies at first

416
00:15:30,710 --> 00:15:27,600
reptilian lizard-like things floating in

417
00:15:32,150 --> 00:15:30,720
pink water they were ugly with big eyes

418
00:15:34,629 --> 00:15:32,160
one twitched

419
00:15:37,110 --> 00:15:34,639
i must have screamed brad forced me to

420
00:15:39,110 --> 00:15:37,120
look terry they're images from the past

421
00:15:41,189 --> 00:15:39,120
and they can't hurt you now how many

422
00:15:43,350 --> 00:15:41,199
aquariums do you see

423
00:15:45,829 --> 00:15:43,360
a hundred or more aquariums i said they

424
00:15:47,670 --> 00:15:45,839
cover a whole wall there is pink water

425
00:15:50,470 --> 00:15:47,680
inside and some are bigger

426
00:15:53,030 --> 00:15:50,480
they look like no hell no these are

427
00:15:55,030 --> 00:15:53,040
human beings how can this be

428
00:15:56,389 --> 00:15:55,040
these can't be living human beings they

429
00:15:58,870 --> 00:15:56,399
are different

430
00:16:00,949 --> 00:15:58,880
oh god they are not like us one moved

431
00:16:02,550 --> 00:16:00,959
again its head turned towards us and

432
00:16:03,829 --> 00:16:02,560
it's i blinked

433
00:16:05,509 --> 00:16:03,839
unquote

434
00:16:08,389 --> 00:16:05,519
so before we move on to this section

435
00:16:10,870 --> 00:16:08,399
where an examination then happens let's

436
00:16:13,350 --> 00:16:10,880
first reflect on what we just read to be

437
00:16:15,829 --> 00:16:13,360
crystal clear here what seems to be

438
00:16:18,230 --> 00:16:15,839
implied by terry is that when he

439
00:16:20,870 --> 00:16:18,240
recognizes human beings in what seemed

440
00:16:23,269 --> 00:16:20,880
to be military regalia of some sort or

441
00:16:25,269 --> 00:16:23,279
another he believes the reactions of

442
00:16:27,749 --> 00:16:25,279
these three men these three agents the

443
00:16:29,749 --> 00:16:27,759
major and the two other agents suggest

444
00:16:32,150 --> 00:16:29,759
to him that they know about these kinds

445
00:16:35,189 --> 00:16:32,160
of human beings and that they're

446
00:16:37,829 --> 00:16:35,199
disturbed that actually an abductee like

447
00:16:40,150 --> 00:16:37,839
terry actually remembers so they're not

448
00:16:42,629 --> 00:16:40,160
surprised that human beings were on

449
00:16:43,990 --> 00:16:42,639
board but rather that terry can actually

450
00:16:46,389 --> 00:16:44,000
remember it and then they try to give

451
00:16:48,790 --> 00:16:46,399
him a hypnotic suggestion so that he

452
00:16:51,430 --> 00:16:48,800
will not remember that specific part of

453
00:16:52,949 --> 00:16:51,440
the encounter very curious i'm sure

454
00:16:54,710 --> 00:16:52,959
you'll agree

455
00:16:57,189 --> 00:16:54,720
alright so now let's jump ahead to when

456
00:16:59,509 --> 00:16:57,199
the examination is about to start

457
00:17:01,509 --> 00:16:59,519
quoting from the book again quote

458
00:17:04,309 --> 00:17:01,519
what's about to start terry

459
00:17:05,750 --> 00:17:04,319
the examination i say they do medical

460
00:17:06,630 --> 00:17:05,760
things and hurt me while i'm on the

461
00:17:08,710 --> 00:17:06,640
table

462
00:17:10,309 --> 00:17:08,720
i fill my lungs with air to scream and

463
00:17:12,949 --> 00:17:10,319
nothing comes out

464
00:17:15,429 --> 00:17:12,959
oh god help me please there's a tall one

465
00:17:16,710 --> 00:17:15,439
there don't look at me oh god he's going

466
00:17:19,270 --> 00:17:16,720
to look at me

467
00:17:20,789 --> 00:17:19,280
sensing my anxiety brad squeezed my hand

468
00:17:22,789 --> 00:17:20,799
and said softly

469
00:17:24,949 --> 00:17:22,799
relax now terry and tell me about the

470
00:17:26,309 --> 00:17:24,959
tall one he can't hurt you now tell me

471
00:17:28,630 --> 00:17:26,319
about him

472
00:17:31,270 --> 00:17:28,640
he's not benign or malevolent if he

473
00:17:33,110 --> 00:17:31,280
could talk he'd say nothing personal

474
00:17:35,029 --> 00:17:33,120
just doing my job man

475
00:17:37,190 --> 00:17:35,039
he's a different type of entity a

476
00:17:40,390 --> 00:17:37,200
different animal entirely he's

477
00:17:42,789 --> 00:17:40,400
insect-like and as tall as the aliens

478
00:17:44,470 --> 00:17:42,799
the grey ones are their drones to do his

479
00:17:46,470 --> 00:17:44,480
bidding and help him

480
00:17:49,270 --> 00:17:46,480
they are worker bees what does the

481
00:17:50,789 --> 00:17:49,280
insect thing want with you brad asked

482
00:17:53,110 --> 00:17:50,799
i think they are trying to learn our

483
00:17:55,510 --> 00:17:53,120
anatomy learn how we work

484
00:17:57,190 --> 00:17:55,520
they show no empathy whatsoever and just

485
00:17:58,710 --> 00:17:57,200
go about their business

486
00:18:00,950 --> 00:17:58,720
they hurt me with instruments and

487
00:18:01,990 --> 00:18:00,960
mechanical stainless steel probes and

488
00:18:03,830 --> 00:18:02,000
knives

489
00:18:05,190 --> 00:18:03,840
there are tools that hang from a low

490
00:18:06,870 --> 00:18:05,200
dome ceiling

491
00:18:09,590 --> 00:18:06,880
everything is white porcelain and

492
00:18:11,990 --> 00:18:09,600
stainless steel i'm restrained and they

493
00:18:14,630 --> 00:18:12,000
did medical things to me i tried to tell

494
00:18:17,510 --> 00:18:14,640
them i wasn't anesthetized i was less

495
00:18:19,510 --> 00:18:17,520
than a human being i was their lab rat

496
00:18:20,870 --> 00:18:19,520
then they make me forget and everything

497
00:18:23,909 --> 00:18:20,880
will be okay

498
00:18:25,590 --> 00:18:23,919
unquote now speaking of this examination

499
00:18:28,230 --> 00:18:25,600
i'd like to jump forward to a section

500
00:18:31,350 --> 00:18:28,240
where this tall insectoid-like being

501
00:18:34,390 --> 00:18:31,360
who's conducting the medical examination

502
00:18:36,390 --> 00:18:34,400
seems to grow frustrated that terry is

503
00:18:38,630 --> 00:18:36,400
making so much noise putting up such a

504
00:18:40,710 --> 00:18:38,640
fuss and this again touches on what i

505
00:18:43,830 --> 00:18:40,720
talked about last week in terms of the

506
00:18:45,669 --> 00:18:43,840
misapprehension of human psychology

507
00:18:47,830 --> 00:18:45,679
by these others they seem to not

508
00:18:50,150 --> 00:18:47,840
understand how we work they still seem

509
00:18:52,150 --> 00:18:50,160
to make faulty assumptions about how to

510
00:18:54,950 --> 00:18:52,160
handle us quoting from that section of

511
00:18:57,510 --> 00:18:54,960
the book quote i heard his voice inside

512
00:18:59,990 --> 00:18:57,520
my head i heard it as clearly as any

513
00:19:02,870 --> 00:19:00,000
spoken word he told me i had to stop

514
00:19:05,110 --> 00:19:02,880
screaming he said you know us we will

515
00:19:08,150 --> 00:19:05,120
not harm you you will go back and you

516
00:19:09,909 --> 00:19:08,160
will not remember so why do you scream

517
00:19:12,230 --> 00:19:09,919
he touched my right temple again and i

518
00:19:13,750 --> 00:19:12,240
immediately lost consciousness until

519
00:19:16,230 --> 00:19:13,760
they took me back

520
00:19:17,669 --> 00:19:16,240
unquote now again this is fascinating

521
00:19:19,750 --> 00:19:17,679
and this again speaks to the

522
00:19:22,310 --> 00:19:19,760
misunderstanding the misapprehension of

523
00:19:25,029 --> 00:19:22,320
our psychology this being assumes that

524
00:19:26,710 --> 00:19:25,039
since brad knows he will be taken back

525
00:19:28,630 --> 00:19:26,720
he won't ultimately be harmed that

526
00:19:31,190 --> 00:19:28,640
there's no logical reason for him to

527
00:19:33,350 --> 00:19:31,200
scream but of course terry is screaming

528
00:19:35,430 --> 00:19:33,360
because the moment is painful what

529
00:19:36,470 --> 00:19:35,440
they're doing in that present moment is

530
00:19:38,150 --> 00:19:36,480
painful

531
00:19:39,990 --> 00:19:38,160
again this seems to speak to a

532
00:19:42,789 --> 00:19:40,000
disconnect in terms of the way we

533
00:19:45,350 --> 00:19:42,799
communicate with them and vice versa now

534
00:19:47,830 --> 00:19:45,360
just as a quick reminder all of this is

535
00:19:50,070 --> 00:19:47,840
part of that hypnotic regression and at

536
00:19:52,470 --> 00:19:50,080
the end of this regression this major is

537
00:19:54,789 --> 00:19:52,480
going to use a hypnotic suggestion

538
00:19:56,470 --> 00:19:54,799
so that they hope anyway terry will not

539
00:19:58,789 --> 00:19:56,480
remember any of this that they will have

540
00:20:01,350 --> 00:19:58,799
recovered the intel but terry won't

541
00:20:03,830 --> 00:20:01,360
remember anything not consciously and so

542
00:20:05,430 --> 00:20:03,840
this major says quote terry in just a

543
00:20:07,990 --> 00:20:05,440
moment i'll take these ugly memories

544
00:20:10,149 --> 00:20:08,000
away forever you will forget everything

545
00:20:11,909 --> 00:20:10,159
that happened to you at devil's den you

546
00:20:14,470 --> 00:20:11,919
will forget that big ship and the

547
00:20:17,029 --> 00:20:14,480
aquariums the men in tan uniforms with

548
00:20:19,430 --> 00:20:17,039
orange insignias you will forget your

549
00:20:21,750 --> 00:20:19,440
trip to the moon the things you saw and

550
00:20:23,350 --> 00:20:21,760
the things you were told about the moon

551
00:20:25,029 --> 00:20:23,360
you will forget everything that happened

552
00:20:27,510 --> 00:20:25,039
to you at devil's den and you will

553
00:20:28,710 --> 00:20:27,520
forget everything that happened to toby

554
00:20:31,029 --> 00:20:28,720
ready

555
00:20:33,430 --> 00:20:31,039
unquote and then he takes terry through

556
00:20:36,310 --> 00:20:33,440
a count up and then has terry reach up

557
00:20:38,630 --> 00:20:36,320
and switch off a light mentally speaking

558
00:20:39,909 --> 00:20:38,640
so as to close the session and again

559
00:20:42,149 --> 00:20:39,919
they are hoping that terry will not

560
00:20:43,909 --> 00:20:42,159
remember anything at that point and just

561
00:20:45,669 --> 00:20:43,919
to clarify you should probably read the

562
00:20:47,669 --> 00:20:45,679
book if you want to know all the details

563
00:20:48,630 --> 00:20:47,679
i do recommend it incident at devil's

564
00:20:50,149 --> 00:20:48,640
den

565
00:20:52,789 --> 00:20:50,159
but in that section there there was

566
00:20:54,630 --> 00:20:52,799
reference to the moon as part of terry's

567
00:20:56,710 --> 00:20:54,640
time on board that craft they actually

568
00:20:59,830 --> 00:20:56,720
show him the back side of the moon where

569
00:21:01,510 --> 00:20:59,840
he supposedly sees a full city structure

570
00:21:03,029 --> 00:21:01,520
and that there are human beings on the

571
00:21:05,190 --> 00:21:03,039
moon as well and they have been there

572
00:21:08,549 --> 00:21:05,200
for decades apparently that's what he's

573
00:21:10,470 --> 00:21:08,559
told by a specific hybrid being again i

574
00:21:13,909 --> 00:21:10,480
think this speaks to the fact that these

575
00:21:15,470 --> 00:21:13,919
experiences these encounters are complex

576
00:21:17,669 --> 00:21:15,480
while they can be shocking and

577
00:21:19,029 --> 00:21:17,679
discombobulating and ontologically

578
00:21:21,190 --> 00:21:19,039
confusing

579
00:21:23,430 --> 00:21:21,200
and while they are painful often

580
00:21:25,029 --> 00:21:23,440
especially during the medical procedures

581
00:21:28,230 --> 00:21:25,039
it's not as simple as saying they are

582
00:21:29,830 --> 00:21:28,240
malevolent or nefarious and terry goes

583
00:21:32,230 --> 00:21:29,840
out of his way to say that we just read

584
00:21:32,950 --> 00:21:32,240
that section and in addition to all of

585
00:21:35,190 --> 00:21:32,960
that

586
00:21:37,270 --> 00:21:35,200
while all this is happening all of these

587
00:21:39,669 --> 00:21:37,280
strange bizarre bewildering and

588
00:21:40,950 --> 00:21:39,679
sometimes painful experiences remember

589
00:21:41,990 --> 00:21:40,960
even when he comes back from the

590
00:21:44,870 --> 00:21:42,000
abduction

591
00:21:46,630 --> 00:21:44,880
both he and toby are in a lot of pain

592
00:21:48,230 --> 00:21:46,640
every bone in their body aches is the

593
00:21:50,710 --> 00:21:48,240
way he puts it

594
00:21:53,669 --> 00:21:50,720
but while all this is going on terry

595
00:21:55,830 --> 00:21:53,679
actually has a hybrid watcher this

596
00:21:58,470 --> 00:21:55,840
female figure that seems to be part grey

597
00:22:01,270 --> 00:21:58,480
alien and part human who tries to

598
00:22:02,470 --> 00:22:01,280
encourage him tries to show compassion

599
00:22:04,470 --> 00:22:02,480
towards him

600
00:22:07,110 --> 00:22:04,480
tries to counsel him through this entire

601
00:22:09,430 --> 00:22:07,120
experience and indeed it is she who

602
00:22:11,990 --> 00:22:09,440
later warns him about what the military

603
00:22:14,070 --> 00:22:12,000
may do not the aliens and we'll get to

604
00:22:16,390 --> 00:22:14,080
that in a moment but i first want to

605
00:22:19,270 --> 00:22:16,400
jump forward to a section later on in

606
00:22:20,230 --> 00:22:19,280
the book much later on where terry finds

607
00:22:23,590 --> 00:22:20,240
himself

608
00:22:25,909 --> 00:22:23,600
waking up sitting in his family room and

609
00:22:27,830 --> 00:22:25,919
before we jump into that section again i

610
00:22:30,870 --> 00:22:27,840
just want to remind you that these

611
00:22:32,950 --> 00:22:30,880
experiences for many people like terry

612
00:22:35,990 --> 00:22:32,960
happen over a lifetime

613
00:22:39,029 --> 00:22:36,000
and in fact terry remembers this female

614
00:22:41,909 --> 00:22:39,039
figure this female hybrid human figure

615
00:22:44,149 --> 00:22:41,919
from childhood even in fact he realizes

616
00:22:46,870 --> 00:22:44,159
only in retrospect that the reason why

617
00:22:49,029 --> 00:22:46,880
his actual asian neighbor who was a

618
00:22:51,830 --> 00:22:49,039
woman that lived next door to them made

619
00:22:54,789 --> 00:22:51,840
him feel uneasy is because she reminded

620
00:22:57,750 --> 00:22:54,799
him of this hybrid being this hybrid

621
00:22:59,750 --> 00:22:57,760
female entity who had been his guide

622
00:23:02,710 --> 00:22:59,760
ever since childhood

623
00:23:05,110 --> 00:23:02,720
very interesting now she reappears again

624
00:23:07,750 --> 00:23:05,120
after a long period where he'd had no

625
00:23:09,270 --> 00:23:07,760
contact with these aliens whatsoever and

626
00:23:12,549 --> 00:23:09,280
this is the section we're going to jump

627
00:23:14,230 --> 00:23:12,559
to in the book now later in the 2000s

628
00:23:15,190 --> 00:23:14,240
quoting from that section of the book

629
00:23:17,590 --> 00:23:15,200
quote

630
00:23:20,070 --> 00:23:17,600
when i opened my eyes i found myself in

631
00:23:22,789 --> 00:23:20,080
our family room i was seated upright in

632
00:23:24,549 --> 00:23:22,799
my chair and sweating profusely

633
00:23:27,029 --> 00:23:24,559
i could see the alarm panel from my

634
00:23:27,990 --> 00:23:27,039
chair the alarm was set and had not been

635
00:23:30,070 --> 00:23:28,000
triggered

636
00:23:32,070 --> 00:23:30,080
never in my life have i walked in my

637
00:23:34,470 --> 00:23:32,080
sleep not once

638
00:23:37,990 --> 00:23:34,480
seated directly across from me is what i

639
00:23:40,710 --> 00:23:38,000
first mistook to be a small asian woman

640
00:23:43,029 --> 00:23:40,720
i would estimate her height at four feet

641
00:23:45,190 --> 00:23:43,039
she wore oversized sunglasses that hid

642
00:23:46,149 --> 00:23:45,200
her large almond eyes and part of her

643
00:23:48,070 --> 00:23:46,159
face

644
00:23:50,789 --> 00:23:48,080
she wore a red head scarf she had

645
00:23:51,830 --> 00:23:50,799
loosely tied to hide her pencil thin

646
00:23:54,230 --> 00:23:51,840
neck

647
00:23:55,590 --> 00:23:54,240
aside from the red scarf she was dressed

648
00:23:57,669 --> 00:23:55,600
all in black

649
00:24:00,390 --> 00:23:57,679
black blouse buttoned to the top with

650
00:24:02,070 --> 00:24:00,400
long sleeves that partially hid the four

651
00:24:05,350 --> 00:24:02,080
very long digits

652
00:24:07,269 --> 00:24:05,360
her pants and shoes were also black she

653
00:24:10,070 --> 00:24:07,279
sat casually with a non-threatening

654
00:24:13,430 --> 00:24:10,080
posture my first thought was the men in

655
00:24:16,230 --> 00:24:13,440
black or the mib who supposedly confront

656
00:24:17,990 --> 00:24:16,240
people who've had ufo experiences

657
00:24:19,750 --> 00:24:18,000
their alleged goal is to dissuade

658
00:24:21,190 --> 00:24:19,760
witnesses from telling others about

659
00:24:23,430 --> 00:24:21,200
their experience

660
00:24:26,549 --> 00:24:23,440
honestly i thought the mib stories were

661
00:24:28,390 --> 00:24:26,559
urban legend and just a movie plot but

662
00:24:29,830 --> 00:24:28,400
even urban legends sometimes have a

663
00:24:32,870 --> 00:24:29,840
kernel of truth

664
00:24:34,950 --> 00:24:32,880
i felt mildly sedated the house was

665
00:24:37,350 --> 00:24:34,960
silent except for my breathing

666
00:24:40,390 --> 00:24:37,360
i caught that strange ionized scent in

667
00:24:42,789 --> 00:24:40,400
the air and the hair on my arm stood up

668
00:24:44,710 --> 00:24:42,799
i thought to call out for my wife but i

669
00:24:46,950 --> 00:24:44,720
knew she wouldn't wake up

670
00:24:50,549 --> 00:24:46,960
they made sure of that too

671
00:24:52,710 --> 00:24:50,559
i recall that in 1987 my wife woke up to

672
00:24:53,909 --> 00:24:52,720
find a tiny woman standing at the edge

673
00:24:56,789 --> 00:24:53,919
of our bed

674
00:24:59,110 --> 00:24:56,799
she spoke telepathically and told her

675
00:25:00,870 --> 00:24:59,120
quote everything is okay go back to

676
00:25:03,990 --> 00:25:00,880
sleep unquote

677
00:25:06,149 --> 00:25:04,000
an entity possibly the same entity now

678
00:25:08,549 --> 00:25:06,159
sitting across from me may have visited

679
00:25:10,630 --> 00:25:08,559
our home in 1987

680
00:25:11,669 --> 00:25:10,640
and never tripped the alarm or disturbed

681
00:25:13,430 --> 00:25:11,679
the dog

682
00:25:17,510 --> 00:25:13,440
i guess i shouldn't be surprised to find

683
00:25:19,029 --> 00:25:17,520
her in my home a second time unquote

684
00:25:21,269 --> 00:25:19,039
now just to be clear this is in the

685
00:25:23,350 --> 00:25:21,279
2000s much later on

686
00:25:25,669 --> 00:25:23,360
and again she's here to comfort him and

687
00:25:28,230 --> 00:25:25,679
to warn him to some degree jumping back

688
00:25:29,830 --> 00:25:28,240
into that section of the book quote i

689
00:25:31,669 --> 00:25:29,840
was certain i met her during that

690
00:25:32,870 --> 00:25:31,679
abduction and probably a long time

691
00:25:34,710 --> 00:25:32,880
before that

692
00:25:36,870 --> 00:25:34,720
the voice i heard in my head came as

693
00:25:38,870 --> 00:25:36,880
plainly as a spoken word

694
00:25:41,110 --> 00:25:38,880
she spoke with perfect english grammar

695
00:25:43,750 --> 00:25:41,120
with no discernible accent

696
00:25:45,590 --> 00:25:43,760
she responded to my thoughts immediately

697
00:25:48,070 --> 00:25:45,600
yes i'm that woman

698
00:25:51,430 --> 00:25:48,080
no you will not be taken tonight no more

699
00:25:54,310 --> 00:25:51,440
examinations ever i promise

700
00:25:56,549 --> 00:25:54,320
her promise ebbed my fear by a degree

701
00:25:59,669 --> 00:25:56,559
very soon all my fears had vanished i

702
00:26:01,909 --> 00:25:59,679
wasn't surprised unquote

703
00:26:03,750 --> 00:26:01,919
so just to set the stage here remember

704
00:26:06,149 --> 00:26:03,760
this is decades later this is in the

705
00:26:08,870 --> 00:26:06,159
2000s when terry is actually

706
00:26:11,350 --> 00:26:08,880
contemplating writing a book and taking

707
00:26:13,510 --> 00:26:11,360
this information public including the

708
00:26:15,110 --> 00:26:13,520
information that was supposedly

709
00:26:17,029 --> 00:26:15,120
classified and part of his

710
00:26:19,590 --> 00:26:17,039
non-disclosure agreement

711
00:26:21,830 --> 00:26:19,600
now she's come to warn him about the

712
00:26:25,110 --> 00:26:21,840
consequences if he goes ahead with his

713
00:26:27,510 --> 00:26:25,120
plan for disclosure jumping into that

714
00:26:29,510 --> 00:26:27,520
conversation from the book quote

715
00:26:31,350 --> 00:26:29,520
what could i know that is so important

716
00:26:33,669 --> 00:26:31,360
lots of people write books and openly

717
00:26:35,029 --> 00:26:33,679
discuss their experiences why am i

718
00:26:37,669 --> 00:26:35,039
singled out

719
00:26:39,669 --> 00:26:37,679
she was unequivocal you know things and

720
00:26:42,390 --> 00:26:39,679
you have seen images of things that are

721
00:26:43,909 --> 00:26:42,400
crucial to their shared agenda

722
00:26:46,630 --> 00:26:43,919
they are important to both your

723
00:26:48,549 --> 00:26:46,640
government and to my hosts you are not

724
00:26:50,870 --> 00:26:48,559
aware of their importance and you can't

725
00:26:52,710 --> 00:26:50,880
discern which memories are sensitive and

726
00:26:54,630 --> 00:26:52,720
should not be disclosed

727
00:26:56,149 --> 00:26:54,640
to remove them now would cause you great

728
00:26:58,310 --> 00:26:56,159
harm

729
00:26:59,190 --> 00:26:58,320
it was difficult to stay on topic i

730
00:27:01,269 --> 00:26:59,200
asked

731
00:27:03,350 --> 00:27:01,279
is this thing in my leg tied to all of

732
00:27:06,390 --> 00:27:03,360
this by the way as a quick aside he

733
00:27:08,549 --> 00:27:06,400
found an implant in his leg at one point

734
00:27:10,470 --> 00:27:08,559
jumping back into the book quote

735
00:27:12,070 --> 00:27:10,480
how many people have been tagged with an

736
00:27:14,070 --> 00:27:12,080
implant like mine

737
00:27:15,669 --> 00:27:14,080
i wanted to know but i wasn't prepared

738
00:27:17,909 --> 00:27:15,679
for the answer

739
00:27:20,389 --> 00:27:17,919
many many thousands over three

740
00:27:23,590 --> 00:27:20,399
generations was her reply

741
00:27:25,750 --> 00:27:23,600
i was stunned by her answer i asked her

742
00:27:28,310 --> 00:27:25,760
please answer two questions for me what

743
00:27:30,070 --> 00:27:28,320
is the purpose of this thing in my leg

744
00:27:31,990 --> 00:27:30,080
are you here to persuade me to not

745
00:27:34,789 --> 00:27:32,000
disclose what i know

746
00:27:37,510 --> 00:27:34,799
her answers continued to astonish me

747
00:27:39,269 --> 00:27:37,520
you have devices in both of your legs

748
00:27:41,590 --> 00:27:39,279
they serve a purpose and they have

749
00:27:43,590 --> 00:27:41,600
caused you no harm if you continue to

750
00:27:46,710 --> 00:27:43,600
speak publicly and if you publish your

751
00:27:49,510 --> 00:27:46,720
book my hosts will recover them that is

752
00:27:51,750 --> 00:27:49,520
the limit of my host's concern

753
00:27:54,230 --> 00:27:51,760
then it occurred to me my left leg had

754
00:27:55,830 --> 00:27:54,240
never been x-rayed i have two of these

755
00:27:57,590 --> 00:27:55,840
things inside of me

756
00:28:00,549 --> 00:27:57,600
my next thought was

757
00:28:02,470 --> 00:28:00,559
why how can the devices be removed

758
00:28:05,350 --> 00:28:02,480
my host will not allow you to have them

759
00:28:07,669 --> 00:28:05,360
removed here and analyzed by terrestrial

760
00:28:08,950 --> 00:28:07,679
scientists for their composition

761
00:28:11,510 --> 00:28:08,960
they won't harm you and you'll

762
00:28:13,830 --> 00:28:11,520
experience no pain they'll remove them

763
00:28:16,070 --> 00:28:13,840
from your body while you're sleeping

764
00:28:19,110 --> 00:28:16,080
your government also has interests in

765
00:28:21,830 --> 00:28:19,120
you and in your devices she added

766
00:28:24,389 --> 00:28:21,840
i asked i still don't understand can you

767
00:28:26,310 --> 00:28:24,399
answer plainly these things in my leg

768
00:28:28,549 --> 00:28:26,320
what purpose do they serve

769
00:28:31,350 --> 00:28:28,559
the devices have many purposes the

770
00:28:33,590 --> 00:28:31,360
concern among all is that once disclosed

771
00:28:35,990 --> 00:28:33,600
they will support your claims your

772
00:28:38,070 --> 00:28:36,000
government will not allow it they will

773
00:28:39,430 --> 00:28:38,080
first attempt to discredit you she said

774
00:28:41,830 --> 00:28:39,440
with emphasis

775
00:28:43,350 --> 00:28:41,840
who are your hosts i asked it seemed

776
00:28:45,590 --> 00:28:43,360
like such an odd way to refer to

777
00:28:48,230 --> 00:28:45,600
whatever entities she worked for

778
00:28:50,230 --> 00:28:48,240
host can be a verb as in to host a

779
00:28:52,549 --> 00:28:50,240
dinner party it can also be used to

780
00:28:55,350 --> 00:28:52,559
reference a symbiotic relationship that

781
00:28:57,510 --> 00:28:55,360
can be mutualistic or parasitic

782
00:28:59,990 --> 00:28:57,520
she gave an eloquent reply

783
00:29:02,230 --> 00:29:00,000
you call them aliens i refer to them as

784
00:29:03,350 --> 00:29:02,240
my hosts because they are not alien to

785
00:29:05,190 --> 00:29:03,360
me

786
00:29:06,230 --> 00:29:05,200
with that question answered i asked

787
00:29:08,310 --> 00:29:06,240
again

788
00:29:10,470 --> 00:29:08,320
a lot of people write books speak in

789
00:29:13,110 --> 00:29:10,480
public and in the media on the topic of

790
00:29:15,269 --> 00:29:13,120
extraterrestrial beings visiting earth

791
00:29:17,350 --> 00:29:15,279
why would my government not allow me to

792
00:29:20,630 --> 00:29:17,360
disclose these things why is my

793
00:29:22,310 --> 00:29:20,640
information any different unquote now at

794
00:29:24,950 --> 00:29:22,320
this point terry is still somewhat

795
00:29:27,510 --> 00:29:24,960
confused if you noticed earlier

796
00:29:29,830 --> 00:29:27,520
this hybrid being suggested that at

797
00:29:32,310 --> 00:29:29,840
first the government would attempt to

798
00:29:34,470 --> 00:29:32,320
discredit terry but their attempts to

799
00:29:36,950 --> 00:29:34,480
stop his move for disclosure would not

800
00:29:39,350 --> 00:29:36,960
stop there in fact the most poignant

801
00:29:42,149 --> 00:29:39,360
moment is when she says to terry quote

802
00:29:43,830 --> 00:29:42,159
your government will kill you unquote

803
00:29:46,070 --> 00:29:43,840
and here she's referring to what they

804
00:29:49,350 --> 00:29:46,080
will do the government if terry

805
00:29:51,510 --> 00:29:49,360
continues with his plan to go public

806
00:29:53,269 --> 00:29:51,520
now at this point i'd like to step back

807
00:29:55,430 --> 00:29:53,279
and reflect on everything we've talked

808
00:29:58,070 --> 00:29:55,440
about everything we've read from this

809
00:30:00,870 --> 00:29:58,080
book both in this episode and in the

810
00:30:03,110 --> 00:30:00,880
previous one episode 54.

811
00:30:05,909 --> 00:30:03,120
this clearly is yet another case of a

812
00:30:07,110 --> 00:30:05,919
human being who's experienced abduction

813
00:30:10,230 --> 00:30:07,120
accounts

814
00:30:12,470 --> 00:30:10,240
repeatedly over the course of a lifetime

815
00:30:13,909 --> 00:30:12,480
but along with that we have to remember

816
00:30:15,669 --> 00:30:13,919
that there are often

817
00:30:18,070 --> 00:30:15,679
long periods of time where nothing

818
00:30:20,470 --> 00:30:18,080
apparently happens sometimes decades can

819
00:30:22,789 --> 00:30:20,480
go by for people like terry lovelace

820
00:30:24,549 --> 00:30:22,799
when nothing really happens at least

821
00:30:26,710 --> 00:30:24,559
nothing that's conscious because again

822
00:30:28,230 --> 00:30:26,720
part of the challenge here is that just

823
00:30:30,950 --> 00:30:28,240
because you don't remember something

824
00:30:33,029 --> 00:30:30,960
happening doesn't mean it hasn't

825
00:30:35,430 --> 00:30:33,039
in fact often it's only after he's

826
00:30:37,590 --> 00:30:35,440
experienced some kind of associative

827
00:30:40,549 --> 00:30:37,600
triggering event in his life that

828
00:30:43,190 --> 00:30:40,559
suddenly a memory surfaces because again

829
00:30:45,269 --> 00:30:43,200
the challenge here is that these others

830
00:30:47,830 --> 00:30:45,279
can control our memories they can take

831
00:30:49,750 --> 00:30:47,840
memories away they can cover over them

832
00:30:51,750 --> 00:30:49,760
with screen memories and they can

833
00:30:54,070 --> 00:30:51,760
implant false memories there's some

834
00:30:56,870 --> 00:30:54,080
evidence for that as well so being able

835
00:30:59,190 --> 00:30:56,880
to actually ascertain what has actually

836
00:31:02,230 --> 00:30:59,200
happened over the course of a life when

837
00:31:04,789 --> 00:31:02,240
you are an abductee or a contactee is

838
00:31:08,149 --> 00:31:04,799
very complex the degree to which they

839
00:31:11,830 --> 00:31:08,159
can control our actions our thinking our

840
00:31:14,389 --> 00:31:11,840
feelings and our behavior is astounding

841
00:31:17,190 --> 00:31:14,399
now speaking of triggering associative

842
00:31:20,310 --> 00:31:17,200
kind of events that happen that do end

843
00:31:22,149 --> 00:31:20,320
up surfacing memories in terry's case

844
00:31:23,830 --> 00:31:22,159
there were some very bizarre ones for

845
00:31:26,789 --> 00:31:23,840
instance one time he was walking with

846
00:31:29,430 --> 00:31:26,799
his wife in the mall rounded a corner

847
00:31:31,110 --> 00:31:29,440
and saw mannequins in a store window and

848
00:31:33,590 --> 00:31:31,120
that was enough for him to suddenly have

849
00:31:36,230 --> 00:31:33,600
memories of grey aliens that alone

850
00:31:37,669 --> 00:31:36,240
suddenly made his heart rate race to the

851
00:31:39,750 --> 00:31:37,679
point where he feared that he was

852
00:31:41,750 --> 00:31:39,760
actually going to have a heart attack

853
00:31:43,909 --> 00:31:41,760
and this came out of nowhere nothing had

854
00:31:45,830 --> 00:31:43,919
been happening recently to suggest that

855
00:31:48,789 --> 00:31:45,840
anything like this was going to happen

856
00:31:51,029 --> 00:31:48,799
we also mentioned how his asian neighbor

857
00:31:53,590 --> 00:31:51,039
this female asian neighbor was enough to

858
00:31:56,630 --> 00:31:53,600
trigger discomfort in him though he

859
00:31:58,630 --> 00:31:56,640
couldn't at the time understand why in

860
00:32:00,710 --> 00:31:58,640
fact when we can't relate this back to

861
00:32:02,870 --> 00:32:00,720
some memory we assume it must be

862
00:32:04,789 --> 00:32:02,880
something about that person themselves

863
00:32:06,310 --> 00:32:04,799
as it turns out it was nothing about

864
00:32:08,630 --> 00:32:06,320
this lady it turns out this neighbor

865
00:32:09,990 --> 00:32:08,640
lady was very friendly and would often

866
00:32:12,389 --> 00:32:10,000
bake cookies and whatnot for the

867
00:32:14,630 --> 00:32:12,399
neighborhood kids the reason why she

868
00:32:17,750 --> 00:32:14,640
made him uncomfortable as a kid was

869
00:32:20,630 --> 00:32:17,760
because she reminded him unconsciously

870
00:32:22,950 --> 00:32:20,640
of this hybrid being this hybrid watcher

871
00:32:25,190 --> 00:32:22,960
being that we just discussed

872
00:32:27,830 --> 00:32:25,200
and just to really highlight this aspect

873
00:32:29,909 --> 00:32:27,840
of the phenomenon where abductees will

874
00:32:31,990 --> 00:32:29,919
suddenly have triggering events that

875
00:32:33,350 --> 00:32:32,000
bring back memories that are somewhat

876
00:32:35,350 --> 00:32:33,360
traumatic

877
00:32:37,269 --> 00:32:35,360
when terry went and actually saw

878
00:32:39,750 --> 00:32:37,279
counseling at one point and had some

879
00:32:42,149 --> 00:32:39,760
brain scans done it was clear to the

880
00:32:44,470 --> 00:32:42,159
therapist who was very compassionate and

881
00:32:47,029 --> 00:32:44,480
empathetic that terry was showing all

882
00:32:49,590 --> 00:32:47,039
the signs of ptsd this was actually

883
00:32:52,470 --> 00:32:49,600
showing up in the tests they ran on him

884
00:32:54,549 --> 00:32:52,480
and she asked him again empathetically

885
00:32:56,549 --> 00:32:54,559
what kind of events had he been through

886
00:32:58,070 --> 00:32:56,559
that would bring about the eventuality

887
00:33:00,630 --> 00:32:58,080
where he was showing signs of

888
00:33:02,710 --> 00:33:00,640
post-traumatic stress disorder

889
00:33:04,470 --> 00:33:02,720
again she knew from his history that he

890
00:33:06,149 --> 00:33:04,480
had not actually been in combat when he

891
00:33:07,669 --> 00:33:06,159
was in the military he never left the

892
00:33:10,230 --> 00:33:07,679
united states

893
00:33:12,630 --> 00:33:10,240
even when they found the implant in his

894
00:33:15,190 --> 00:33:12,640
knee they wondered if that was shrapnel

895
00:33:16,870 --> 00:33:15,200
from warfare but again terry had never

896
00:33:18,630 --> 00:33:16,880
been in combat

897
00:33:20,470 --> 00:33:18,640
and to this therapist's credit she

898
00:33:22,230 --> 00:33:20,480
actually believed him although he was

899
00:33:24,310 --> 00:33:22,240
very hesitant to say much about the

900
00:33:26,470 --> 00:33:24,320
abductions at all she knew there was

901
00:33:28,310 --> 00:33:26,480
something he was not saying and she said

902
00:33:30,710 --> 00:33:28,320
to him that whatever he had experienced

903
00:33:33,029 --> 00:33:30,720
it clearly was real enough that it had

904
00:33:35,509 --> 00:33:33,039
resulted in a classic case of

905
00:33:37,269 --> 00:33:35,519
post-traumatic stress disorder and in

906
00:33:39,669 --> 00:33:37,279
fact she was ready to refer him to

907
00:33:42,310 --> 00:33:39,679
someone else who actually also had had

908
00:33:44,549 --> 00:33:42,320
experiences with something like ufos or

909
00:33:46,710 --> 00:33:44,559
aliens that was a therapist that she

910
00:33:49,029 --> 00:33:46,720
thought could help him

911
00:33:50,950 --> 00:33:49,039
now as we step back from a case like

912
00:33:52,870 --> 00:33:50,960
that of terry lovelace and the many

913
00:33:55,990 --> 00:33:52,880
people like him who've experienced these

914
00:33:58,149 --> 00:33:56,000
kinds of encounters over a lifetime

915
00:34:00,389 --> 00:33:58,159
i think a couple things are clear

916
00:34:02,870 --> 00:34:00,399
number one this is a complex

917
00:34:05,029 --> 00:34:02,880
multi-faceted phenomenon involving

918
00:34:07,830 --> 00:34:05,039
abductions apparent hybridization

919
00:34:10,550 --> 00:34:07,840
programs memory adjustment behavior

920
00:34:13,109 --> 00:34:10,560
modification and on it goes

921
00:34:15,270 --> 00:34:13,119
in terry lovelace's case he's mostly

922
00:34:17,669 --> 00:34:15,280
made peace with these events looking

923
00:34:19,510 --> 00:34:17,679
back over the course of his lifetime he

924
00:34:22,069 --> 00:34:19,520
doesn't believe they mean him harm or

925
00:34:23,909 --> 00:34:22,079
meant him harm at any point in his life

926
00:34:25,829 --> 00:34:23,919
nevertheless there's no doubt that the

927
00:34:28,310 --> 00:34:25,839
experience was traumatic was

928
00:34:30,710 --> 00:34:28,320
discombobulating was ontologically

929
00:34:32,149 --> 00:34:30,720
shocking and therefore even if people

930
00:34:34,869 --> 00:34:32,159
ultimately end up seeing these

931
00:34:36,869 --> 00:34:34,879
experiences as positive or neutral i

932
00:34:40,310 --> 00:34:36,879
would argue that our response to people

933
00:34:42,550 --> 00:34:40,320
to experiencers abductees contact these

934
00:34:45,750 --> 00:34:42,560
should first and foremost be one of

935
00:34:48,069 --> 00:34:45,760
patience and compassion

936
00:34:50,310 --> 00:34:48,079
now before we sign off for this edition

937
00:34:52,790 --> 00:34:50,320
of point of convergence i want to bring

938
00:34:55,109 --> 00:34:52,800
to your attention a new project i've

939
00:34:58,390 --> 00:34:55,119
undertaken which is titled liminal

940
00:35:00,310 --> 00:34:58,400
frames liminal frames will be a podcast

941
00:35:02,950 --> 00:35:00,320
of which the episodes will also be

942
00:35:05,109 --> 00:35:02,960
published to my youtube channel at exo

943
00:35:08,470 --> 00:35:05,119
academian where i am joined with my

944
00:35:11,190 --> 00:35:08,480
co-host nathan also known as a wave soul

945
00:35:14,230 --> 00:35:11,200
on twitter to embark upon a twice a

946
00:35:16,390 --> 00:35:14,240
month 90 minute or so conversational

947
00:35:19,829 --> 00:35:16,400
dialogue around issues to do with the

948
00:35:22,790 --> 00:35:19,839
ufo phenomenon high strangeness and all

949
00:35:24,870 --> 00:35:22,800
other aspects of paranormality

950
00:35:26,630 --> 00:35:24,880
i'm very excited about this new venture

951
00:35:29,030 --> 00:35:26,640
and i'm quite confident that if you

952
00:35:32,230 --> 00:35:29,040
enjoy point of convergence you're also

953
00:35:34,470 --> 00:35:32,240
going to very much enjoy liminal frames

954
00:35:36,950 --> 00:35:34,480
and speaking of that this upcoming

955
00:35:39,349 --> 00:35:36,960
monday only a couple of days from now

956
00:35:41,430 --> 00:35:39,359
the inaugural edition of liminal frames

957
00:35:43,349 --> 00:35:41,440
will be published again it will be its

958
00:35:45,270 --> 00:35:43,359
own dedicated podcast so if you're

959
00:35:47,670 --> 00:35:45,280
listening on a podcast platform right

960
00:35:49,910 --> 00:35:47,680
now you'll want to find liminal frames

961
00:35:53,030 --> 00:35:49,920
on your platform of choice and by the

962
00:35:56,470 --> 00:35:53,040
way heads up the word frames is spelled

963
00:35:59,190 --> 00:35:56,480
with a ph not an f ph playing off

964
00:36:01,510 --> 00:35:59,200
phenomenon of course so liminal frames

965
00:36:03,030 --> 00:36:01,520
with a ph for frames

966
00:36:04,950 --> 00:36:03,040
and if you're listening on my youtube

967
00:36:07,670 --> 00:36:04,960
channel you'll be able to find the

968
00:36:09,670 --> 00:36:07,680
liminal frames episodes right here

969
00:36:11,589 --> 00:36:09,680
again i hope you tune in the first

970
00:36:13,829 --> 00:36:11,599
episode's already been recorded gets

971
00:36:15,910 --> 00:36:13,839
released on monday i'm really happy with

972
00:36:19,430 --> 00:36:15,920
how it turned out and i hope you'll join

973
00:36:22,069 --> 00:36:19,440
nathan and i in an ongoing engaging and

974
00:36:24,950 --> 00:36:22,079
entertaining discussion around the ufo

975
00:36:27,510 --> 00:36:24,960
phenomenon and colorizing anomalous

976
00:36:29,910 --> 00:36:27,520
phenomena that's coming monday

977
00:36:31,589 --> 00:36:29,920
and on that note we've come to the close

978
00:36:33,670 --> 00:36:31,599
of another edition of the point of

979
00:36:35,750 --> 00:36:33,680
convergence podcast if you'd like to

980
00:36:36,829 --> 00:36:35,760
support this podcast you can do so by

981
00:36:38,550 --> 00:36:36,839
going to

982
00:36:40,390 --> 00:36:38,560
patreon.com

983
00:36:42,550 --> 00:36:40,400
exo academia

984
00:36:44,390 --> 00:36:42,560
but until next time friends from deep

985
00:36:47,750 --> 00:36:44,400
within the blue ridge mountains of north

986
00:36:51,030 --> 00:36:47,760
carolina this is exo academian signing